I’m not sure how much overlap there is between my community and the people who follow/followed Leandra Medine Cohen of the now defunct Manrepeller, but since her latest interview is currently what is occupying my brain (and all of my direct messages on Instagram), I’m going to start a discussion about it here, so that anybody interested can talk about it with each other.
I’ll give you the backstory in shorthand, because I think the majority of the people who will want to talk about this are already very familiar. Leandra was a fashion blogger who focused on dressing for yourself instead of dressing with men in mind (hence, Manrepeller). She was able to transition her personal blog into a very successful media company and ran it for about ten years. Back in May 2020, after the death of George Floyd and during the Black Lives Matter protests, when a lot of white people woke up to their privilege in this country, Manrepeller posted their black square on Instagram and said they stood for diversity and inclusion. Then followers and former employees challenged Leandra on whether that was actually true, especially in light of laying off their only full time Black employee at the beginning of the pandemic. Leandra was accused of leading a toxic work environment that did not give Black people the same opportunities as white people and running a fashion site that lacked diversity. She decided to step down and Manrepeller shut down a few months later.
One would assume stepping down was admitting wrongdoing or at least giving herself time to learn and self reflect. A recent interview on the podcast The Cutting Room Floor suggests otherwise. Leandra explains that her departure was something she had wanted to do for awhile and that her cancellation gave her a way out. She also says she wishes she had fought the allegations instead of accepting them. She denies being a racist and attributes any mistakes made in running her company to just being a bad boss and an asshole.
The host Recho Omondi tries to get Leandra to understand that she wasn’t being accused of being a racist, so much as a woman who did not see her own privilege and bias. Arguably, if Leandra admitted that she was unaware of her implicit bias and the microaggressions she was perpetuating in the workplace at the time, but now has come to understand them, she would have put herself in a much better light. Instead she doubled down and tried to get the host to sympathize with her. She said she grew up thinking she was poor and only recently realized that she was rich, because she was the least privileged of the privileged people in her incredibly privileged community. This of course, sounds absolutely ridiculous and is probably the last thing you should actually say out loud, let alone on a Black woman’s podcast where you are trying to redeem yourself for past mistakes towards a marginalized group.
I want to be clear that Leandra Medine Cohen asked for this interview, had numerous times to rerecord it and has no one to blame but herself for how self-involved and delusional she sounded. It is especially bizarre as to why she even wanted to be on Recho’s podcast. She has her fanbase and has explained herself to her Substack audience, but clearly, that wasn’t enough. She needed to win over a community who was no longer listening to her, which just demonstrates she is still seeking approval rather than actually trying to better herself. In the interview, she does all the things that if she had actually done some anti-racist work, she would know are problematic— making it all about herself, not taking any accountability for her actions, and trying to equate her struggle to the Black experience in America. It was very difficult to listen to her try to play the victim, even when she says she is taking off her “victim shoes.” Or the example of her crying on the phone when she laid off Crystal Anderson, the Black employee who got laid off at the beginning of the pandemic, as if the decision was more painful for Leandra than for Crystal. I also think Recho brought up some very eye-opening points that I hadn’t heard described as clearly before like the “pet to threat” issue at the workplace, where white people hire a Black woman and treat them like a positive asset, until that Black woman gets too good at her job. Based on what I heard during the interview, and based on what I know about working in an office in general, I can definitely see this as being the case.
But there were many levels to this podcast, because the other issue was that the interview was bookended with very anti-semitic language and stereotypes. For instance, at the beginning, Recho says many founders and slave owners in America were also Jewish. This is false because Jewish people made up such a small fraction of the American population at the time. It is true that there were some Jewish slave owners but this is estimated at around 1%. The myth that Jews controlled the slave trade is used to spread the anti-semitic conspiracy theory that Jews are secretly in charge of everything. Recho also includes a clip of a woman saying “Jews were slaves too. You don’t hear us complaining about it.” This is a recorded bit from a non-Jewish comedian and not actually said by a Jewish person, although that is not clarified in the episode. But the most offensive part for me came at the end, after the interview was over when Recho says, “I couldn’t stomach another white assimilated Jewish American Princess who is wildly privileged but thinks she’s oppressed. At the end of the day you guys are going to get your nose jobs and your keratin treatments and change your last name from Ralph Lifshitz to Ralph Lauren and you will be fine.”
I totally get that white Jewish women have an easier time assimilating in America than most minorities, but I can’t imagine any of this being said to another ethnic or religious group and it being acceptable, let alone applauded.
So. Here you have a privileged white woman not taking accountability for racism in the workplace and a host using anti-semitism to prove just how privileged her guest is, which just makes the whole thing so difficult to process. Leandra might represent a certain kind of person in the fashion industry, but she definitely doesn’t represent all Jewish women.
Recho got tons of praise for the interview when it first came out, including an article in NY Mag making fun of Leandra that didn’t even mention the anti-semitic comments. Meanwhile, NY Mag is as guilty as anyone for propping up privileged NYC elite. I know because for most of my young adult life, I poured over the pages of their magazine wondering who these socialites were who were mingling with celebrities in designer dresses at fancy parties. If there was anything that could make little kid Leandra feel like she might be rich, but not RICH RICH, it was NY Mag. The idea of them making fun of Leandra’s privilege is pretty hypocritical, in my opinion, even if she is deserving of the criticism.
Which leads me to the comments on Recho’s Instagram, which she has since shut down. Most of them were complimenting Recho on the takedown of Leandra. There were a few comments from Jewish people calling out the anti-semitism in the episode. These comments were met with responses that were largely anti-semitic. People saying things like, “I like your wigs” and “interesting how everyone calling out anti-semitism looks like Leandra’s twin.” I think Recho felt uncomfortable with the anti-semitism in her comments as well, because she posted on her Instagram story that she would be removing all anti-semitic comments and blocking the people who made them, somehow not realizing that what she published in her podcast was just as bad, if not worse. At the very least, you would hope she would wonder why people suddenly felt so comfortable expressing their anti-semitic thoughts on her Instagram page.
One of the main themes in her comments and pretty much whenever someone mentions anti-semitism is that Jewish people are imagining it or using it to deflect a larger issue. I have honestly considered this at other times this year when it was brought up in liberal circles I trusted. I have seen certain individuals do this and I think Leandra tried to use her Judaism as a way to equate her experience to a Black person’s in America, which made me cringe big time. As a Jewish woman, I know I benefit from white privilege and do not experience the systemic oppression that exists for Black people in this country. But there is no denying there was anti-semitism in the podcast and the response to the podcast, so please don’t tell Jewish people that they imagined it or that we need to reflect on why it made us feel so uncomfortable, as if racism is not okay but anti-semitism is deserved.
Last night, Recho edited out the comments about Jewish slaveholders and about Jewish American Princesses from her podcast episode. She has not made any public comments about the deletions yet, so to people listening to the podcast for the first time, it will sound like the Jewish people in her comment section are making much ado about nothing. I am hoping she addresses this because it doesn’t seem fair to just delete and pretend it didn’t happen.
Now, one can presume that Recho realized her mistake and took the comments down to reflect. But just like Leandra taught us, we cannot assume people do things with purely good intentions. More likely, Recho let us see her true feelings and then didn’t like the backlash, while also feeling uncomfortable with the support.
It’s a lot to unpack. Both on how it’s possible that Leandra didn’t see her own privilege and on how Recho didn’t see her words as anti-semitic. Any thoughts?
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And I thought I was here mostly for Harlow’s baking video 🤷♀️ You nailed this! Seriously, as a Jewish woman, I appreciate you writing about it and raising awareness. Thank you.
This is really well written and thoughtful. As a Jewish girl raised in a super homogeneous southern town, I saw racism and anti-semitism way too often. For me, it definitely shaped my understanding of feeling like an outsider and how to overcome that. Obviously I could ‘hide’ my Jewish-ness in a way Black people cannot but it also taught me to to advocate for others. I am continually perplexed on how so many Jews can be racist and not see the utter hypocrisy in that. I have never understood why Blacks & Jews aren’t bigger champions for each other. This is not to say our experience is anything like the Black experience (at all) but, if anything, our privilege and our struggles should be the perfect combination of super power to advocate for equality.
I don't know or follow either of these women so I can't give any insight into what may contribute to their blindspots. From what you have summarized though it reminds me of working as a therapist with trauma victims, and often times their lack of empathy for other trauma victims if their experience "wasn't as bad" as their own trauma. They would call out other people for minimizing trauma in general, but had a blind spot or at times felt like they were justified in their minimization of other's experiences as their experience was worse from their perspective. As I have even heard professionals do this as well, "well at least (fill in the blank didn't happen)" creating the narrative for the idea that we should just focus on being grateful that worse things didn't happen. Therefore Leandra didn't recognize her own privilege because she wasn't as privileged as those around her, and Recho doesn't believe that Jewish individuals have had it as bad as African Americans.
I think we should wait for episode 2 to come out next week to see whether she addresses the deletions. I’ll be honest I thought hearing Leandra say “a lot of people were burned at the stake last year” (when referring to people who faced the consequences of their actions after George Flloyd’s death) was so upsetting. She was equating her cancellation (which she survived) to people be burned at the stake in the same conversation she is (supposed to be?) discussing how Black people are literally NOT surviving in America. Saying that to a Black woman? Who you’ve made record a podcast with you three times? That’s violent. That is white supremacy. To me, she showed her cards right there.
And while I do not agree with the anti-Semitic undertones or disinformation, I felt the “nose job” digs etc were an emotional response to Leandra opening up the wound of all the trauma Black people have experienced by essentially saying “I was traumatized too.”
It’s like a woman saying “I was harassed by a male coworker” and a white man stepping in and saying “So? I’ve been harassed too!” Yes, every human can experience harassment but women fundamentally experience it more.
For Leandra to feel the need to continually point out her own suffering (which yes, is valid and real and her experience) she makes it clear she is not even operating in the same realm of consciousness when it comes to understanding racism in America.
I wonder if Recho was attempting to point out that white women benefit from their ability to conform to society’s standards of beauty and be accepted by said society, while Black women cannot. Do you know what I mean? And the stereotypical examples she used were to prove a point that some women can change/erase the things they would have been oppressed for. Not saying she should have used them!!
I’m very careful not to tone police when it comes to Black Women’s experiences. I really do have a feeling all this will be addressed.
Behind any inflammatory language, the way I understood the comment was that regardless of ancestry, one’s proximity to whiteness is what keeps them safe. Leandra, in her day to day life, is physically/emotionally/mentally safer than a Black woman. Yet here Leandra is, trying to get a Black woman to save her.
Would you rather wake up tomorrow and be Leandra in America or Black in America? That’s what I felt she was saying when she said, “you will be fine.”
Again - not agreeing with anything anti-Semitic! But also, I have to say this, maybe a thread of white women critiquing a Black woman isn’t constructive?
Ilana, you always write so eloquently about these subjects. I always feel like I'm learning and growing when you post. I have to say I was really sickened when I read your story today. Those words from Recho Omondi were so blatantly and hurtfully anti-semitic, I gasped out loud. It made me think of what mindset someone would have to say those things. We Jews would not be chemically straightening our hair or getting nose jobs or changing our names to less obviously Jewish names if not in response to anti-semitism and oppression! And the use of the term "you guys" just sits so uneasily with me.
I haven't listened to the podcast yet but from everything I've read, I'm sure Leandra is incredibly privileged, tone-deaf, and biased. That deserves to be called out. But the response to that is never to hit back with tone-deaf and biased stereotypes of Jewish people. It just seems that people are so incredibly uneducated about the history of Jews (seen from Recho's first comments) and their oppression. I really hope Recho does not stop at simply removing the offensive content and closing comments for a while. I hope she learns and grows from this moment.
Unfortunately, this is what happens when you apply the worldview and lens of critical theory to every interaction. Not pretty. Traditional definitions of interpersonal racism and institutional racism are not dependent on one’s intersectional status (as though it were a caste system - new system of morality - the righteous and the unrighteousness.)…they are dependent on a person thinking their race/ethnicity is better than another persons. Institutionally this plays out when you don’t let said persons in or treat them differently. Now, we are actually perpetuating racism, binary/stereotypes with a method that is “supposedly” disrupting it.
I am curious if you have read anything by Bari Weiss who is an ex-journalist from the New York Times. A self-described liberal, Jewish woman who is discussing all of this. She has a sub stack. Worth looking up for sure.
So much this. There is so much casual anti-semitism that it seems commonplace-which it shouldn’t be. And when Jews call out the anti-semitism, we are told we are wrong for calling it out-that it wasn’t anti-semitism. The only people who get to decide if sinuosity anti-Semitic are Jews. And if you edit out your podcast-you have to say why. Editing in this case, shows that you are doing it because you don’t want to be called out.
I’ve never heard of either of these people before but reading this Leandra makes me think about an episode of Saved by the Bell when Zack said in his neighborhood the poor family is the one without cable. But Recho… That’s the kind of person I have some experience with. I’m black/white mixed. White assimilated, white passing, white things, white sounding. The things I’ve heard from black people wouldn’t fly if white people said it.
You nailed it. I listened to the podcast last night and as you said the antisemitic parts were cut by that time. I appreciate you mentioning them b/c it’s important and those comments you mention were done in that “casual” anti-semtic way that’s seemingly acceptable in society. To clarify, I’m not defending Leandre bc oof did she just step in it over and over again. I’m talking specifically about the anti semitism. I don’t think ppl care that much when comments or violence happens and I would say it dates back to the age old tropes of Jewish ppl deserving it for some reason, based on lies abt controlling the banks, the media (now even the weather), etc.
I think the hypocrisy of Recho's actions are hugely telling. Calling out (rightfully so) Leanda for her actions/inactions but then sweeping your own under the rug without addressing them. We all make mistakes (tho I have a hard time simplifying it like that), but part of growth is owning them and learning from them.
I agree with you that editing the part and cuting it out isn't really a person realizing why the stuff she is saying is wrong. And for the part where Leandra didn't see her own privilege and Recho didn't see her words as anti-semitic, I think when you are not trying to learn about your own position and contribution to society, it opens up for this kind of things. Being in a lot of movements since my teenager's year, I see that people who blocks themself in box of label, have a difficult time understanding the effect of their own position.
I listened to this podcast AFTER it was edited without realizing it. I do wish Recho would have noted it somewhere. Instead I even messaged you, Ilana, talking about how Leandra seemed to not just be oblivious about her situation but spent the time to try and reflect and then landed on the idea that she did nothing wrong. So for starters, I'm sorry if in any way my ignorance of hearing an edited version and responding only to one side was frustrating for you. I genuinely think, as someone who hosts a podcast myself, if you edit it after the fact you really should note it as the audience deserves that. The antisemitic remarks were 100% uncalled for.
On the Leandra topic I think as much as I think "oh my she's so privileged and ignorant" I also realized I know people like her. Fellow white people who grow up privileged and don't recognize it. Who grow up to be racist but can ignore it because they primarily live in white suburban pockets. Many people are a product of their environment which always reminds me of the quote 'injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere'. When these self isolating pockets of the privileged exist, how do we ever get people to recognize and improve racism on a wide scale?
I just don’t like the entire interview. It’s a hot mess from start to finish. For Recho, I hated the anti-semitism and the way she didn’t push back against many of Leandra’s statements. And then Leandra just seems extremely out of touch and self-centered. This pandemic has been hard on everyone, so to talk about how rough her cancellation was when people are dying of covid, black people are being killed by the police, and millions of people were unemployed at the time of her cancellation …. I just cannot with her lol. Anyways I found it so interesting that you said you went back and listened to it again. Did you cringe just as much the second time? And are you planning to listen to the second part on patreon?
Also, I think the concept of whiteness is very interesting here bc Leandra’s parents are immigrants- one is from Turkey and the other is from Iran. So this definitely complicates the understanding of whiteness and whiteness in America. Additionally, the interviewer plays on stereotypes of Ashkenazi women (effed up stereotypes), something that Leandra is not. This is again the interviewer conflating all Jews in an untrue and problematic way.
Additionally, (re Leandra feeling poor growing up) it makes sense that her experience as the child of immigrants made her feel confused and conflicted about her family’s class and status.
Overall, It is unbelievable to me that people would come away from the podcast only with the understanding that Leandra is tone deaf and not that the interviewer is anti-Semitic AF!
And I thought I was here mostly for Harlow’s baking video 🤷♀️ You nailed this! Seriously, as a Jewish woman, I appreciate you writing about it and raising awareness. Thank you.
This is really well written and thoughtful. As a Jewish girl raised in a super homogeneous southern town, I saw racism and anti-semitism way too often. For me, it definitely shaped my understanding of feeling like an outsider and how to overcome that. Obviously I could ‘hide’ my Jewish-ness in a way Black people cannot but it also taught me to to advocate for others. I am continually perplexed on how so many Jews can be racist and not see the utter hypocrisy in that. I have never understood why Blacks & Jews aren’t bigger champions for each other. This is not to say our experience is anything like the Black experience (at all) but, if anything, our privilege and our struggles should be the perfect combination of super power to advocate for equality.
I don't know or follow either of these women so I can't give any insight into what may contribute to their blindspots. From what you have summarized though it reminds me of working as a therapist with trauma victims, and often times their lack of empathy for other trauma victims if their experience "wasn't as bad" as their own trauma. They would call out other people for minimizing trauma in general, but had a blind spot or at times felt like they were justified in their minimization of other's experiences as their experience was worse from their perspective. As I have even heard professionals do this as well, "well at least (fill in the blank didn't happen)" creating the narrative for the idea that we should just focus on being grateful that worse things didn't happen. Therefore Leandra didn't recognize her own privilege because she wasn't as privileged as those around her, and Recho doesn't believe that Jewish individuals have had it as bad as African Americans.
I think we should wait for episode 2 to come out next week to see whether she addresses the deletions. I’ll be honest I thought hearing Leandra say “a lot of people were burned at the stake last year” (when referring to people who faced the consequences of their actions after George Flloyd’s death) was so upsetting. She was equating her cancellation (which she survived) to people be burned at the stake in the same conversation she is (supposed to be?) discussing how Black people are literally NOT surviving in America. Saying that to a Black woman? Who you’ve made record a podcast with you three times? That’s violent. That is white supremacy. To me, she showed her cards right there.
And while I do not agree with the anti-Semitic undertones or disinformation, I felt the “nose job” digs etc were an emotional response to Leandra opening up the wound of all the trauma Black people have experienced by essentially saying “I was traumatized too.”
It’s like a woman saying “I was harassed by a male coworker” and a white man stepping in and saying “So? I’ve been harassed too!” Yes, every human can experience harassment but women fundamentally experience it more.
For Leandra to feel the need to continually point out her own suffering (which yes, is valid and real and her experience) she makes it clear she is not even operating in the same realm of consciousness when it comes to understanding racism in America.
I wonder if Recho was attempting to point out that white women benefit from their ability to conform to society’s standards of beauty and be accepted by said society, while Black women cannot. Do you know what I mean? And the stereotypical examples she used were to prove a point that some women can change/erase the things they would have been oppressed for. Not saying she should have used them!!
I’m very careful not to tone police when it comes to Black Women’s experiences. I really do have a feeling all this will be addressed.
Behind any inflammatory language, the way I understood the comment was that regardless of ancestry, one’s proximity to whiteness is what keeps them safe. Leandra, in her day to day life, is physically/emotionally/mentally safer than a Black woman. Yet here Leandra is, trying to get a Black woman to save her.
Would you rather wake up tomorrow and be Leandra in America or Black in America? That’s what I felt she was saying when she said, “you will be fine.”
Again - not agreeing with anything anti-Semitic! But also, I have to say this, maybe a thread of white women critiquing a Black woman isn’t constructive?
Ilana, you always write so eloquently about these subjects. I always feel like I'm learning and growing when you post. I have to say I was really sickened when I read your story today. Those words from Recho Omondi were so blatantly and hurtfully anti-semitic, I gasped out loud. It made me think of what mindset someone would have to say those things. We Jews would not be chemically straightening our hair or getting nose jobs or changing our names to less obviously Jewish names if not in response to anti-semitism and oppression! And the use of the term "you guys" just sits so uneasily with me.
I haven't listened to the podcast yet but from everything I've read, I'm sure Leandra is incredibly privileged, tone-deaf, and biased. That deserves to be called out. But the response to that is never to hit back with tone-deaf and biased stereotypes of Jewish people. It just seems that people are so incredibly uneducated about the history of Jews (seen from Recho's first comments) and their oppression. I really hope Recho does not stop at simply removing the offensive content and closing comments for a while. I hope she learns and grows from this moment.
Unfortunately, this is what happens when you apply the worldview and lens of critical theory to every interaction. Not pretty. Traditional definitions of interpersonal racism and institutional racism are not dependent on one’s intersectional status (as though it were a caste system - new system of morality - the righteous and the unrighteousness.)…they are dependent on a person thinking their race/ethnicity is better than another persons. Institutionally this plays out when you don’t let said persons in or treat them differently. Now, we are actually perpetuating racism, binary/stereotypes with a method that is “supposedly” disrupting it.
I am curious if you have read anything by Bari Weiss who is an ex-journalist from the New York Times. A self-described liberal, Jewish woman who is discussing all of this. She has a sub stack. Worth looking up for sure.
So much this. There is so much casual anti-semitism that it seems commonplace-which it shouldn’t be. And when Jews call out the anti-semitism, we are told we are wrong for calling it out-that it wasn’t anti-semitism. The only people who get to decide if sinuosity anti-Semitic are Jews. And if you edit out your podcast-you have to say why. Editing in this case, shows that you are doing it because you don’t want to be called out.
I’ve never heard of either of these people before but reading this Leandra makes me think about an episode of Saved by the Bell when Zack said in his neighborhood the poor family is the one without cable. But Recho… That’s the kind of person I have some experience with. I’m black/white mixed. White assimilated, white passing, white things, white sounding. The things I’ve heard from black people wouldn’t fly if white people said it.
You nailed it. I listened to the podcast last night and as you said the antisemitic parts were cut by that time. I appreciate you mentioning them b/c it’s important and those comments you mention were done in that “casual” anti-semtic way that’s seemingly acceptable in society. To clarify, I’m not defending Leandre bc oof did she just step in it over and over again. I’m talking specifically about the anti semitism. I don’t think ppl care that much when comments or violence happens and I would say it dates back to the age old tropes of Jewish ppl deserving it for some reason, based on lies abt controlling the banks, the media (now even the weather), etc.
Phew, that is a whole lot to unpack...
I think the hypocrisy of Recho's actions are hugely telling. Calling out (rightfully so) Leanda for her actions/inactions but then sweeping your own under the rug without addressing them. We all make mistakes (tho I have a hard time simplifying it like that), but part of growth is owning them and learning from them.
I agree with you that editing the part and cuting it out isn't really a person realizing why the stuff she is saying is wrong. And for the part where Leandra didn't see her own privilege and Recho didn't see her words as anti-semitic, I think when you are not trying to learn about your own position and contribution to society, it opens up for this kind of things. Being in a lot of movements since my teenager's year, I see that people who blocks themself in box of label, have a difficult time understanding the effect of their own position.
Thank you for writing this post Ilana. 2021 suddenly feels like the year American Jews cannot stay quiet about "casual" anti-semitism in the media.
Thank you for putting into words what I feel but have trouble expressing so succinctly.
Would love to see Recho Omondi go on Sarah Silverman’s podcast and apologize for/unpack her own antisemitism.
I listened to this podcast AFTER it was edited without realizing it. I do wish Recho would have noted it somewhere. Instead I even messaged you, Ilana, talking about how Leandra seemed to not just be oblivious about her situation but spent the time to try and reflect and then landed on the idea that she did nothing wrong. So for starters, I'm sorry if in any way my ignorance of hearing an edited version and responding only to one side was frustrating for you. I genuinely think, as someone who hosts a podcast myself, if you edit it after the fact you really should note it as the audience deserves that. The antisemitic remarks were 100% uncalled for.
On the Leandra topic I think as much as I think "oh my she's so privileged and ignorant" I also realized I know people like her. Fellow white people who grow up privileged and don't recognize it. Who grow up to be racist but can ignore it because they primarily live in white suburban pockets. Many people are a product of their environment which always reminds me of the quote 'injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere'. When these self isolating pockets of the privileged exist, how do we ever get people to recognize and improve racism on a wide scale?
I just don’t like the entire interview. It’s a hot mess from start to finish. For Recho, I hated the anti-semitism and the way she didn’t push back against many of Leandra’s statements. And then Leandra just seems extremely out of touch and self-centered. This pandemic has been hard on everyone, so to talk about how rough her cancellation was when people are dying of covid, black people are being killed by the police, and millions of people were unemployed at the time of her cancellation …. I just cannot with her lol. Anyways I found it so interesting that you said you went back and listened to it again. Did you cringe just as much the second time? And are you planning to listen to the second part on patreon?
👍🏼
First, I didn’t know you had substack- very cool!
Also, I think the concept of whiteness is very interesting here bc Leandra’s parents are immigrants- one is from Turkey and the other is from Iran. So this definitely complicates the understanding of whiteness and whiteness in America. Additionally, the interviewer plays on stereotypes of Ashkenazi women (effed up stereotypes), something that Leandra is not. This is again the interviewer conflating all Jews in an untrue and problematic way.
Additionally, (re Leandra feeling poor growing up) it makes sense that her experience as the child of immigrants made her feel confused and conflicted about her family’s class and status.
Overall, It is unbelievable to me that people would come away from the podcast only with the understanding that Leandra is tone deaf and not that the interviewer is anti-Semitic AF!