Andrew Cuomo has officially resigned. Good. The behavior outlined in the Attorney General’s report was way grosser than I expected and as much as Cuomo brought comfort to a lot of us during the first few months of the pandemic, it was time for him to go.
But the reason I am bringing this up for discussion is because I want to talk about how much the corporate culture around sex and sexual harassment in the workplace has changed since I worked in advertising back in the late 90s and the ‘aughts. Or at least, I think it has, but since I haven’t worked at a big company in over 10 years, maybe some of you guys are closer to this than I am.
After reading all the initial allegations against Andrew Cuomo (not the most recent ones which were more overt and disgusting), I have to admit— I was one of the people who thought his behavior was a little creepy, a little predatorial, but not really impeachable. I think the reason so many people over a certain age categorized his actions this way is because it all sounds so familiar. Inappropriate interactions (some wanted, some unwanted) were just par for the course 20+ years ago, when women in my generation were young female employees entering the workforce.
Back then, part of working in an office (especially in industries that were male dominated) was navigating how to create relationships with your boss and your colleagues without them thinking you were interested in them as more than co-workers. You also had to pretend to be in on the joke when inappropriate comments were made or else you risked being alienated from the boy’s club you were very much trying to join. All while also scouting for totally consensual hook-ups, since most people met their spouses at work. With the absence of online dating and much more limited social networks, plus the insane hours we were all expected to work, the workplace for a lot of people back then was where you were most likely to interact and engage in ongoing flirtations with the opposite sex.
Is it no longer like this? Is work really all about work now? Obviously, I know consensual relationships are very different from non consensual ones, I just wonder if being in the age of consent has made everything much less murky for all involved. As a 46 year-old woman who has worked for herself for the past ten years, it’s really hard to imagine what the workplace would have been like if the rules were clear and you actually felt like HR had your back.
I think part of Cuomo’s problem is that he continued to make advances on much younger women, totally unaware that while he was busy accumulating power, the rules had changed. He assumed his rising status would make him more attractive, when instead it made his actions more problematic. His ego prevented him from seeing that his advances could be unwanted, so the whole idea of consent went totally over his head. To top it off, when faced with the mounting accusations, he kept denying his behavior, which is ultimately what made more and more women come forward. Many of them thought they would take his inappropriate behavior to the grave until they got pissed that he was calling their friends and co-workers liars.
I mean that’s really the thing right? In the denial, he is admitting he knows the behavior was wrong, which I think clears up any lingering doubts some of the women might have had about the inappropriateness of their interactions.
I’m curious if the Cuomos of the world are relics who are dying out, or if there are many waiting to take his place? How old are you, what industry are you in and what was your experience with sex and sexual harassment in the workplace? What did you put up with when you were younger and how much do you think has changed for women entering the workplace now? And if anyone has a story they’ve been keeping to themselves, here’s a safe space where the floor is yours.
I'm a 29 year old woman in the construction industry for the past 7 years. I work in a (small) big city where you learn quickly which men view construction as a boy's game still. My previous boss, 22 years my senior, made continuous inappropriate advances towards me, on multiple occasions sent pictures to my personal cell phone claiming it was an accident, would call me into his office while he had inappropriate pictures on his computer. I continuously pleaded to the owner for help to no avail. My boss found out about my attempts to no longer work with him, called me into his office and told me to my face that I have, "forgotten my place." That was the day I sent out my resume and promptly accepted a new position with a strong female presence. I am now in a position of power in the construction industry, and make decisions on who we work with (including my old boss - I'm his boss now). It was the best decision of my life. I spoke to a lawyer about my experience to see what my options were. My lawyer said I had experienced way more than necessary to take them down, and that unfortunately this happens frequently, but most women are still too scared to speak up against these monsters.
I am 50 - currently work in the manufacturing and construction industry. Navigate and decipher sexual bias all the time. I don't think things are going to change, unless we want to go to a touch-less society. Unwanted advances are only unwanted if you do not desire the one making them. If the advances are from the one that you are interested in - well then bring it on! That means men are in a tough spot. What I want to see happen - is women shutting this behavior down before the man becomes Governor, President, Movie Mogul. Call out the unwanted advance - make it clear there is no interest - tell them to stop on the spot. I know my view is neither popular nor mainstream in the female realm - but I want us to raise girls into women that are not afraid of confrontation, not afraid or retribution, not afraid of getting fired for sticking up for oneself and doing the right thing. After college I went to LA to pursue my acting career. I left LA after 10 years with not much of a career at all. But I did leave with my dignity, my moral high ground and the knowledge that not once did an encounter go beyond my comfort level. Maybe that is why I didn't have an acting career (or maybe I wasn't as good as I hoped) but I am ok with that.
I am 29 - I specialize in a female dominated field but I work in a hospital - where most of the attending doctors are men who have been working there longer than I have been alive. I do feel there is a generational shift between how men closer to my age treat me vs the older generation. Even though I am similar in age to the older men's daughters, they will often say things like "is it hot in here, or is it just you." While men closer to my age will largely ignore me & just speak to me only in regards to patient care. Additionally, if a younger male coworker does try to talk to me more on a more personal level, they seem to clearly get the hint that I'm not interested and move on. I'd like to believe things are changing for the better.
I’m a 45 yr old woman working in the aerospace and defense industry. I’m in the Finance organization with lots of professionals. I did my senior thesis on sexual harassment in college. I went into the workplace with an understanding of what it was but not the tools to fight it. One main experience was an IT guy that used to hit on me constantly. He’d call me the future Mrs (his last name). Meanwhile he was married at the time. It was very awkward and I was unsure how to address it other than to laugh awkwardly and just agree politely. He was messing with my computer and I didn’t want to upset him lest I lost all my work. And in a fun twist of fate, my husband, who I met outside of work, was family friends with his family. We opted not to invite him to our wedding. He eventually got fired for other behavior.
There were other experiences where I was treated as less knowledgeable simply because I was a young, pretty woman. Or I’d be called arrogant, over confident, a bitch or whatever because I spoke my mind. And there were others that hit on me, putting me in that awkward position of not sure how to turn them down without workplace repercussions. It was hard to see how to fight it back then because you felt like you had to have proof. How do you prove stuff that’s all verbal?
I haven’t experienced it as much in recent years. I’d like to think it’s because times are changing. But it’s probably because I’m older and more confident so I’m not as willing to accept it. I’m no longer an easy target.
I’m a 39 year old woman. I’m a social worker in the VA (Veterans Health Administration) and I’ve been in a leadership position since 2012. I have experienced sexual harassment on countless occasions and when I brought issues to my supervisor (a female in her 60s), she basically told me to be flattered. Last Fall, it was reported to me that one of our interns (female, 22 y/o) was sexually harassed during the first 2 weeks on the job my a male social worker (49 y/o with 2 daughters and a 2-tour Army Veteran) on 5 separate occasions. I took immediate action, removed him from his position and launched into the investigation with EEO and HR. This male employee all but laughed his way thru this process and said he will never get fired. And, he was right. We had all our ducks in a row to have him fired but the Hospital Director (male in his late 50s) overturned the decision and basically gave him another position that seemed like a promotion.it’s disgusting that this happened and he was allowed to get away with it. I have lost total faith in our system along with my staff.
I would like to think of myself as a strong, relatively attractive woman and I've been working in IT (a mostly male dominated field) since I was in my early 20's. I'm not sure if it's my personality or how I carry myself but I've never had a man sexually harass me. I'm almost 41 now and prior to being married I had plenty of men express interest but never in a disrespectful manner. Until just recently actually. I had a co-worker express that he would be interested if my husband were ever to "screw up" and that he would want to be first on the list. Initially, although I was very taken aback, I was flattered but then the more I thought about it, it pissed me off. I can't say I'll do anything about it right now. I work from home and I can easily avoid any future involvement with this co-worker however, if he continues to approach me I won't hesitate to reach out to HR. I think weak men, prey on the meak and less confident women because it makes them feel powerful. I'm lucky that I was raised by a single woman that empowered me, so I've always been strong. There's a lot to be said for strength and confidence.
I’m 38 and entered the architecture and design industry about 16 years ago. I never experienced or witnessed anything close to sexual harassment. I don’t know if I’m just lucky or landed at a good company, but I’m still shocked by this kind thing. It definitely wasn’t the norm or acceptable everywhere. There were some coworker relationships, but the ones I know of were between peers (age and status). I hope that eventually these men will see the wake up call and realize this won’t be tolerated anymore.
I am 28yo and work in the customer service industry. I think that things have improved some but we are still so far off of where we need to be. Victims are often not believed or their accounts of what happened are often belittled (it couldn’t have been that bad or you’re just overthinking it, that’s not what he meant, etc.). On top of that, if the perpetrator makes the company a lot of money or is just a rich person in general, they are often allowed to get away with things and “problems” are made to go away without actually being handled.
Older men definitely are the ones who do the most but younger men do as well, I just feel like it’s less in your face sometimes.
When I was 16, I worked at burger and ice cream restaurant on the beach. It had been my 3rd year working there actually, but new owners this particular summer. One of the owners, the man, the husband, liked me a lot and how hard I worked. He made sure to always tell me what a great job I was doing and that I was his hardest worker. As the summer weeks went by, he became more comfortable around me and less professional. Cursing, making slightly inappropriate jokes, commenting on the patrons bodies in my ear, things like that. I just overlooked it all, again I was 16. Then one day he called me over and said he had something to show me. He had taken one of those large, whole dill pickles and melted white American cheese on the end. He told me that he was thinking of selling this new menu item and he wanted me to taste it. I thought it was very strange, cheese on a pickle? But he assured me it was delicious. He had a devious smirk on his face and insisted on feeding it to me. A cook, who was in college and a friend, was standing right there watching, as well as a couple other employees, all teens. I tried to take a small bite, but he told me to open my mouth as wide as I could because he wanted me “to get all the gooey cheese in my mouth.” It was at this point, with the pickle in my mouth and the expression on the cook’s face, that I realized what he was doing. He told me to bite down really hard and when I did he made a sound like he had climaxed. Then he started laughing hysterically and the other laughed uncomfortably. I went out back and thought about what to do next. I knew it was completely not okay, even in the 90’s as a teen, I knew this was messed up. So, I took a deep breathe and decided to do…. Nothing. Because what could I do? How could I explain this story to my very Catholic mother? No, I’ll just suck it up, pretend I thought it was funny too and move on. I was the hardest and best worker they had and I needed to act like it. It was weeks later that the cook said to me on his last day before going back to college, that I needed to make this my last summer there and that it would also be his. That the boss was a huge creep and he was concerned for me. I didn’t deserve to be around that kind of behavior. So, the next summer I got a job selling hermit crabs and it was amazing.
I'm 37 and work in radio. It's definitely an industry where it can get tricky.... your work is fun and your fun is work. Things are very social, so the line between work and friendship/personal sometimes gets blurred. About 10-12 years ago, I did experience some unwanted advances from a coworker (20 years older than me).... it was nothing I reported, but did firmly tell him that he wasn't going to get what he wanted. Eventually, some of our other coworkers helped out, just by telling him it was never going to happen and that he needed to stop. In the meantime, I was interested in (and eventually dated) another coworker.
Beyond that, I find "sexual harassment" to be an interesting topic and probably lean a little lax on what I think is considered unacceptable. First and foremost, any unwanted advances (physical, verbal, etc) should not be tolerated. Period. However, I know a lot of people think that *generalized* inappropriate jokes or innuendos are harassment. Personally, I don't. Again, I'm in a social industry and just don't get offended by a dirty joke. It doesn't stop me from being able to do my job effectively. Where I DO get offended (and have reported) is when I am treated differently or dismissed because I am a woman. There have been times when a certain coworker's attitude and actions towards me (as a woman) have directly affected my ability to do my job and I've had to go to management about it.
I'm 40 and have worked in HR for the past almost 20 years in the service and manufacturing industries. At my last company, a small, family-owned staffing company, I advised (and was approved) to fire an employee twice due to sexual harassment complaints. He was a friend of the family's so he was rehired each time he was fired (the last time was after I left the company). At this same company, the boyfriend (now husband) of the president's daughter, who DID work for the company, spent a holiday party completely drunk and started mouthing off the most racist, sexist, blech words to everyone. He was promoted. Personally, the president of the company called me "pumpkin", which I will admit didn't bother me as much as that was what he would call his daughters that were the same age as me. I was also bullied so much by one senior manager that I ended up on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medication and was under the care of a psychiatrist for years. That manager was fired for embezzling but I was told after by another senior manager that the company "knew what he was doing to me but they made him money so it was allowed to happen". I left the company 8 years ago and my understanding is that it hasn't changed. Unfortunately, hiring/firing decisions were ultimately the decision of the president and, while HR could blow the whistle all day long, it didn't mean sh*t at that company. I have since moved into manufacturing and it is a much different/better environment. I still work in HR, but I haven't had to handle a single sexual harassment claim. We also have an anonymous hotline that is operated outside of our company, and nothing has been called in. My understanding is that it is actually much different in our European and South African operations, though I know those claims are handled in much the same was as the US. But it's still on the victim to prove the claims. It becomes a he said/she said situation and the owness always seems to fall on the victim/accuser. I would like to believe that many companies are doing the right thing but there are still companies out there that just don't care because that employee happens to make them money.
I just turned 45 and relate very much to your perspective Ilana! Coming from that time...you learned to roll with things that might have felt off, but also benefitted from workplace romance (I've been married to my husband for 16 years and we met on a work trip to Cancun). It would be a shame if workplace romance was not allowed but I completely understand zero tolerance for harassment of any sort. Since those younger dating days, I have worked in industries where woman are dominant (first Travel/Tourism, then Higher Education). Sexual harassment has been rare in my experience but I do notice that men climb to high positions faster in these female dominant spaces. That's a separate power/worth conversation... or is it?
I am a grandmother 65+ and grew up and worked in NYC in various positions while attending NYU Nursing. I then worked in Women's health ...OB-Gyn, which continued to be my specialty until retiring from nursing and getting a Masters in Social Work and working as a Clinical Social Worker...all my work experience has been with men and women in various levels. FYI I married a physician I met at work in 1977 when harassment existed but was not on the workplace HR front burner. I did experience plenty of harassment in the workplace...some was sexual and some was not. The sexual come-ons, I dismissed when I had no interest in the person socially. It was a different time and place.
Now while I am no longer a NYer and am retired I find myself supportive of the "Me Too" movement and have also been supportive of Cuomo during his COVID response. I know he is a politician and a strong personality, who has "pissed off" a lot of people during this high anxiety time which is why I am looking at this sexual harassment piece very carefully. Both my professional and personal experiences have taught me to try and gather all the information before I draw conclusions or in many cases a diagnosis.
There are so many players in this scenario that I find fascinating including the governor and his accusers. I am very troubled by the lack of evidence of the accusations that the governor faced...I do think he did the right thing resigning. However, one thing that bothers me is the lack of "evidence" and I am wondering how I would feel in his position. As a clinical social worker I did therapy with sexual offenders, predators and sexual assault survivors specifically fathers that had sexually abused their children. One of Cuomo's accusers said he exhibited predator behavior...which I am not going to support or deny here, but I found it jarring in her interview...and then she said she knew he wanted to sleep with her...again I won't challenge that either. But I do feel there is so much info that is unknown in this case that we should not be drawing too many conclusions about workplace sexual harassment and how to handle it based on the Cuomo case as we currently understand it from the media. A well know controversial legal expert Alan Dershowitz writes about the "Me Too" movement and some of its flaws which I think bears a discussion so we can continue to support legitimate claims of sexual harassment from possible sexual harassment claims that are made for other reasons. This article came across my feed this morning and it gave me something to think about concerning the players in the Cuomo resignation. We as women must not allow the Me Too movement to be used in a way is was not meant to be used. To me, it was meant to bring down predators male or female, right now we are only focused on a one way street. I am wondering if any one has been sexually harassed by another woman or a member of the same sex? I knew a college student who was sexually harassed and abused by a female high school guidance counselor. That is a whole other story. I do not mean to start an argument here I am trying to express what my experiences have taught me.
I am very concerned about workplace sexual harassment and the eventual legal and social changes that will hopefully follow. Here is a link to an article that inspired part my response
I am 39. I lost my first advertising industry job after expressing discomfort that I watched our Principal get slapped in the face with the breasts of a woman named “blondie” at a strip club in Atlanta while entertaining clients. I was fresh out of school and was told my beer order didn’t qualify as a “big girl drink”, forced to drink liquor and shots by senior males and females and then reprimanded the next day. My next roles after that ALL include odd behavior from males in the workplace some who I even tried to defend. I fought, I clawed and when I began to really succeed, I started to get pushback from older women who had fought and clawed before me and who were not supporting the younger women doing the same. I am a successful executive in my field, I also own my own business and have daughters. My goal is to support, teach and lead, but I do believe if we need to draw a line it needs to be a clear line for all and that age and experience can cloud those lines. I hope that by opening the dialogue we open the ability for someone to say when they feel uncomfortable and be able to draw that line. That would be the true difference from me. We should all be able to speak and clearly define what makes each of us uncomfortable without repercussions
I'm 49 and have been in public accounting (mid-sized firm) my whole adult life. In my first ten years I frequently traveled with male partners (10-20 years my senior, so definitely this age range you are referring to), we worked long hours, stayed in hotels and always had dinners out. They NEVER made me feel uncomfortable and for that I am extremely grateful. After the me-too movement it made me think (again) how lucky I was and that I really should thank them for being good guys (but how weird is it that I think they are the minority, there-in lies the whole problem!). Upon further reflection, I realize that staying with them for the last 25+ years probably is enough of a thank you, lol.
I’m 59 and retired. For 23 years I worked in a Breast health center in a hospital and was around mostly women, including my boss, except for some male radiologist that I didn’t have to interact with. Before that, I worked in retail for 8-9 years and had male bosses. One of them did like me a lot and asked me out for drinks after work a couple of times, and I just politely said no. He had a wife in a different state who hadn’t moved to be with him yet. The managers got reassigned to different stores often, and their families wouldn’t be there. In my younger days I really didn’t consider that inappropriate, but it really is. Fortunately it didn’t go any further, and he didn’t bother me again, or cause any problems for me. Another boss asked me to go to his house and feed his dog and he would pay me. His wife was also in another state. That turned out ok, and I didn’t take any money for it. I find men very intimidating, and am glad I worked most of my years around women. The worst thing about that is how bitchy some can be.
Your perspective resonates with me a great deal. When I was first hearing about the report and discussing with my husband the details of what Cuomo had done, I knew intellectually it was all wrong...and yet, I felt that lingering "and yet." At first I couldn't put my finger on it, and then I thought, well, just about every single man I worked for should have been fired if held to the same standards. The sexual harassment I witnessed and was a victim of throughout my 20-year career in magazines would take me pages to catalog. I stood by when publishers demeaned and said explicit (often aggressive) sexual things to my editor bosses, who donned sunglasses in meetings and stood their ground without comment. There were times I did say something back in conference rooms when a highly offensive remark was made in my direction, but of course there were consequences (not being invited to the decision-making table anymore, for example). Like you, I have worked on a home-based business for almost a decade now, so I don't know how much has REALLY changed, although I am continually heartened by women's growing intolerance for this kind of behavior. Thanks for posting this and providing a forum for honest discussion about it. PROGRESS!
I'm 40, work in advertising and have never felt sexually harassed. I do think I've had to pretend like I'm ok with a joke or along for the ride more often than I would have liked in order to be accepted into the inner circle - and if you aren't in the inner circle in advertising - well then you are kind of just out.
That said, I can't really get behind the argument that he was unaware that the rules changed. He's an elected leader, and even if culturally or once upon a time how he behaved was ok, he needs to be aware and lean into the current state of affairs if he wants to keep the job. I also think he is a bully - one who knows the power they wield and I think that while maybe his advances were once just the way things were done he didn't stop not because he didn't know the rules changed but because he didn't care and felt above the rules and felt like he should get what he wants and act how he wants. I don't think this behavior is going away. Maybe touching a woman inappropriately as an action of this frame of thinking becomes rare, but I think a bully mentality who can use their power inappropriately is alive and well.
I'm 45, and have spent most of my adult working life in academia. I haven't felt like this was really a thing where I've worked. My first job out of college was at a small biotech company, and there was one awkward lunch invitation from an older guy at the company, but nothing really like what women describe it was like for them in other industries. Maybe I'm just really oblivious to things going on around me, or I chose a field (biology) that had/has less of an old boys power dynamic, or it was that the founders of the company I worked at were a husband-wife team and that made a difference in the culture there. I will say that I feel terrible for the women who were subject to Cuomo's advances, and for the women in other industries that have been mistreated like this. That is so much pressure and stress to take on oneself when just starting out, and it's so unfair. I hope that things are improving with the Me Too movement and all of these public reckonings.
I disagree 100% with your statement “ I think part of Cuomo’s problem is that he continued to make advances on much younger women, totally unaware that while he was busy accumulating power, the rules had changed.”. The “rules” for inappropriate behavior have not changed, but rather women are standing up and speaking out. There has never been (and never will be) an excuse of ignorance for what is acceptable sexual harassment- the answer is zero! Women tolerated it because it was the only path for them and now they’re speaking up which should make life at the office better for all women now and future generations. Speaking up is hard, but maybe you save someone else from the experience!
I'm a 29 year old woman in the construction industry for the past 7 years. I work in a (small) big city where you learn quickly which men view construction as a boy's game still. My previous boss, 22 years my senior, made continuous inappropriate advances towards me, on multiple occasions sent pictures to my personal cell phone claiming it was an accident, would call me into his office while he had inappropriate pictures on his computer. I continuously pleaded to the owner for help to no avail. My boss found out about my attempts to no longer work with him, called me into his office and told me to my face that I have, "forgotten my place." That was the day I sent out my resume and promptly accepted a new position with a strong female presence. I am now in a position of power in the construction industry, and make decisions on who we work with (including my old boss - I'm his boss now). It was the best decision of my life. I spoke to a lawyer about my experience to see what my options were. My lawyer said I had experienced way more than necessary to take them down, and that unfortunately this happens frequently, but most women are still too scared to speak up against these monsters.
I am 50 - currently work in the manufacturing and construction industry. Navigate and decipher sexual bias all the time. I don't think things are going to change, unless we want to go to a touch-less society. Unwanted advances are only unwanted if you do not desire the one making them. If the advances are from the one that you are interested in - well then bring it on! That means men are in a tough spot. What I want to see happen - is women shutting this behavior down before the man becomes Governor, President, Movie Mogul. Call out the unwanted advance - make it clear there is no interest - tell them to stop on the spot. I know my view is neither popular nor mainstream in the female realm - but I want us to raise girls into women that are not afraid of confrontation, not afraid or retribution, not afraid of getting fired for sticking up for oneself and doing the right thing. After college I went to LA to pursue my acting career. I left LA after 10 years with not much of a career at all. But I did leave with my dignity, my moral high ground and the knowledge that not once did an encounter go beyond my comfort level. Maybe that is why I didn't have an acting career (or maybe I wasn't as good as I hoped) but I am ok with that.
I am 29 - I specialize in a female dominated field but I work in a hospital - where most of the attending doctors are men who have been working there longer than I have been alive. I do feel there is a generational shift between how men closer to my age treat me vs the older generation. Even though I am similar in age to the older men's daughters, they will often say things like "is it hot in here, or is it just you." While men closer to my age will largely ignore me & just speak to me only in regards to patient care. Additionally, if a younger male coworker does try to talk to me more on a more personal level, they seem to clearly get the hint that I'm not interested and move on. I'd like to believe things are changing for the better.
I’m a 45 yr old woman working in the aerospace and defense industry. I’m in the Finance organization with lots of professionals. I did my senior thesis on sexual harassment in college. I went into the workplace with an understanding of what it was but not the tools to fight it. One main experience was an IT guy that used to hit on me constantly. He’d call me the future Mrs (his last name). Meanwhile he was married at the time. It was very awkward and I was unsure how to address it other than to laugh awkwardly and just agree politely. He was messing with my computer and I didn’t want to upset him lest I lost all my work. And in a fun twist of fate, my husband, who I met outside of work, was family friends with his family. We opted not to invite him to our wedding. He eventually got fired for other behavior.
There were other experiences where I was treated as less knowledgeable simply because I was a young, pretty woman. Or I’d be called arrogant, over confident, a bitch or whatever because I spoke my mind. And there were others that hit on me, putting me in that awkward position of not sure how to turn them down without workplace repercussions. It was hard to see how to fight it back then because you felt like you had to have proof. How do you prove stuff that’s all verbal?
I haven’t experienced it as much in recent years. I’d like to think it’s because times are changing. But it’s probably because I’m older and more confident so I’m not as willing to accept it. I’m no longer an easy target.
I’m a 39 year old woman. I’m a social worker in the VA (Veterans Health Administration) and I’ve been in a leadership position since 2012. I have experienced sexual harassment on countless occasions and when I brought issues to my supervisor (a female in her 60s), she basically told me to be flattered. Last Fall, it was reported to me that one of our interns (female, 22 y/o) was sexually harassed during the first 2 weeks on the job my a male social worker (49 y/o with 2 daughters and a 2-tour Army Veteran) on 5 separate occasions. I took immediate action, removed him from his position and launched into the investigation with EEO and HR. This male employee all but laughed his way thru this process and said he will never get fired. And, he was right. We had all our ducks in a row to have him fired but the Hospital Director (male in his late 50s) overturned the decision and basically gave him another position that seemed like a promotion.it’s disgusting that this happened and he was allowed to get away with it. I have lost total faith in our system along with my staff.
I would like to think of myself as a strong, relatively attractive woman and I've been working in IT (a mostly male dominated field) since I was in my early 20's. I'm not sure if it's my personality or how I carry myself but I've never had a man sexually harass me. I'm almost 41 now and prior to being married I had plenty of men express interest but never in a disrespectful manner. Until just recently actually. I had a co-worker express that he would be interested if my husband were ever to "screw up" and that he would want to be first on the list. Initially, although I was very taken aback, I was flattered but then the more I thought about it, it pissed me off. I can't say I'll do anything about it right now. I work from home and I can easily avoid any future involvement with this co-worker however, if he continues to approach me I won't hesitate to reach out to HR. I think weak men, prey on the meak and less confident women because it makes them feel powerful. I'm lucky that I was raised by a single woman that empowered me, so I've always been strong. There's a lot to be said for strength and confidence.
I’m 38 and entered the architecture and design industry about 16 years ago. I never experienced or witnessed anything close to sexual harassment. I don’t know if I’m just lucky or landed at a good company, but I’m still shocked by this kind thing. It definitely wasn’t the norm or acceptable everywhere. There were some coworker relationships, but the ones I know of were between peers (age and status). I hope that eventually these men will see the wake up call and realize this won’t be tolerated anymore.
I am 28yo and work in the customer service industry. I think that things have improved some but we are still so far off of where we need to be. Victims are often not believed or their accounts of what happened are often belittled (it couldn’t have been that bad or you’re just overthinking it, that’s not what he meant, etc.). On top of that, if the perpetrator makes the company a lot of money or is just a rich person in general, they are often allowed to get away with things and “problems” are made to go away without actually being handled.
Older men definitely are the ones who do the most but younger men do as well, I just feel like it’s less in your face sometimes.
When I was 16, I worked at burger and ice cream restaurant on the beach. It had been my 3rd year working there actually, but new owners this particular summer. One of the owners, the man, the husband, liked me a lot and how hard I worked. He made sure to always tell me what a great job I was doing and that I was his hardest worker. As the summer weeks went by, he became more comfortable around me and less professional. Cursing, making slightly inappropriate jokes, commenting on the patrons bodies in my ear, things like that. I just overlooked it all, again I was 16. Then one day he called me over and said he had something to show me. He had taken one of those large, whole dill pickles and melted white American cheese on the end. He told me that he was thinking of selling this new menu item and he wanted me to taste it. I thought it was very strange, cheese on a pickle? But he assured me it was delicious. He had a devious smirk on his face and insisted on feeding it to me. A cook, who was in college and a friend, was standing right there watching, as well as a couple other employees, all teens. I tried to take a small bite, but he told me to open my mouth as wide as I could because he wanted me “to get all the gooey cheese in my mouth.” It was at this point, with the pickle in my mouth and the expression on the cook’s face, that I realized what he was doing. He told me to bite down really hard and when I did he made a sound like he had climaxed. Then he started laughing hysterically and the other laughed uncomfortably. I went out back and thought about what to do next. I knew it was completely not okay, even in the 90’s as a teen, I knew this was messed up. So, I took a deep breathe and decided to do…. Nothing. Because what could I do? How could I explain this story to my very Catholic mother? No, I’ll just suck it up, pretend I thought it was funny too and move on. I was the hardest and best worker they had and I needed to act like it. It was weeks later that the cook said to me on his last day before going back to college, that I needed to make this my last summer there and that it would also be his. That the boss was a huge creep and he was concerned for me. I didn’t deserve to be around that kind of behavior. So, the next summer I got a job selling hermit crabs and it was amazing.
I'm 37 and work in radio. It's definitely an industry where it can get tricky.... your work is fun and your fun is work. Things are very social, so the line between work and friendship/personal sometimes gets blurred. About 10-12 years ago, I did experience some unwanted advances from a coworker (20 years older than me).... it was nothing I reported, but did firmly tell him that he wasn't going to get what he wanted. Eventually, some of our other coworkers helped out, just by telling him it was never going to happen and that he needed to stop. In the meantime, I was interested in (and eventually dated) another coworker.
Beyond that, I find "sexual harassment" to be an interesting topic and probably lean a little lax on what I think is considered unacceptable. First and foremost, any unwanted advances (physical, verbal, etc) should not be tolerated. Period. However, I know a lot of people think that *generalized* inappropriate jokes or innuendos are harassment. Personally, I don't. Again, I'm in a social industry and just don't get offended by a dirty joke. It doesn't stop me from being able to do my job effectively. Where I DO get offended (and have reported) is when I am treated differently or dismissed because I am a woman. There have been times when a certain coworker's attitude and actions towards me (as a woman) have directly affected my ability to do my job and I've had to go to management about it.
I'm 40 and have worked in HR for the past almost 20 years in the service and manufacturing industries. At my last company, a small, family-owned staffing company, I advised (and was approved) to fire an employee twice due to sexual harassment complaints. He was a friend of the family's so he was rehired each time he was fired (the last time was after I left the company). At this same company, the boyfriend (now husband) of the president's daughter, who DID work for the company, spent a holiday party completely drunk and started mouthing off the most racist, sexist, blech words to everyone. He was promoted. Personally, the president of the company called me "pumpkin", which I will admit didn't bother me as much as that was what he would call his daughters that were the same age as me. I was also bullied so much by one senior manager that I ended up on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medication and was under the care of a psychiatrist for years. That manager was fired for embezzling but I was told after by another senior manager that the company "knew what he was doing to me but they made him money so it was allowed to happen". I left the company 8 years ago and my understanding is that it hasn't changed. Unfortunately, hiring/firing decisions were ultimately the decision of the president and, while HR could blow the whistle all day long, it didn't mean sh*t at that company. I have since moved into manufacturing and it is a much different/better environment. I still work in HR, but I haven't had to handle a single sexual harassment claim. We also have an anonymous hotline that is operated outside of our company, and nothing has been called in. My understanding is that it is actually much different in our European and South African operations, though I know those claims are handled in much the same was as the US. But it's still on the victim to prove the claims. It becomes a he said/she said situation and the owness always seems to fall on the victim/accuser. I would like to believe that many companies are doing the right thing but there are still companies out there that just don't care because that employee happens to make them money.
I just turned 45 and relate very much to your perspective Ilana! Coming from that time...you learned to roll with things that might have felt off, but also benefitted from workplace romance (I've been married to my husband for 16 years and we met on a work trip to Cancun). It would be a shame if workplace romance was not allowed but I completely understand zero tolerance for harassment of any sort. Since those younger dating days, I have worked in industries where woman are dominant (first Travel/Tourism, then Higher Education). Sexual harassment has been rare in my experience but I do notice that men climb to high positions faster in these female dominant spaces. That's a separate power/worth conversation... or is it?
I am a grandmother 65+ and grew up and worked in NYC in various positions while attending NYU Nursing. I then worked in Women's health ...OB-Gyn, which continued to be my specialty until retiring from nursing and getting a Masters in Social Work and working as a Clinical Social Worker...all my work experience has been with men and women in various levels. FYI I married a physician I met at work in 1977 when harassment existed but was not on the workplace HR front burner. I did experience plenty of harassment in the workplace...some was sexual and some was not. The sexual come-ons, I dismissed when I had no interest in the person socially. It was a different time and place.
Now while I am no longer a NYer and am retired I find myself supportive of the "Me Too" movement and have also been supportive of Cuomo during his COVID response. I know he is a politician and a strong personality, who has "pissed off" a lot of people during this high anxiety time which is why I am looking at this sexual harassment piece very carefully. Both my professional and personal experiences have taught me to try and gather all the information before I draw conclusions or in many cases a diagnosis.
There are so many players in this scenario that I find fascinating including the governor and his accusers. I am very troubled by the lack of evidence of the accusations that the governor faced...I do think he did the right thing resigning. However, one thing that bothers me is the lack of "evidence" and I am wondering how I would feel in his position. As a clinical social worker I did therapy with sexual offenders, predators and sexual assault survivors specifically fathers that had sexually abused their children. One of Cuomo's accusers said he exhibited predator behavior...which I am not going to support or deny here, but I found it jarring in her interview...and then she said she knew he wanted to sleep with her...again I won't challenge that either. But I do feel there is so much info that is unknown in this case that we should not be drawing too many conclusions about workplace sexual harassment and how to handle it based on the Cuomo case as we currently understand it from the media. A well know controversial legal expert Alan Dershowitz writes about the "Me Too" movement and some of its flaws which I think bears a discussion so we can continue to support legitimate claims of sexual harassment from possible sexual harassment claims that are made for other reasons. This article came across my feed this morning and it gave me something to think about concerning the players in the Cuomo resignation. We as women must not allow the Me Too movement to be used in a way is was not meant to be used. To me, it was meant to bring down predators male or female, right now we are only focused on a one way street. I am wondering if any one has been sexually harassed by another woman or a member of the same sex? I knew a college student who was sexually harassed and abused by a female high school guidance counselor. That is a whole other story. I do not mean to start an argument here I am trying to express what my experiences have taught me.
I am very concerned about workplace sexual harassment and the eventual legal and social changes that will hopefully follow. Here is a link to an article that inspired part my response
https://mtracey.substack.com/p/what-the-media-hasnt-told-you-about
I am 39. I lost my first advertising industry job after expressing discomfort that I watched our Principal get slapped in the face with the breasts of a woman named “blondie” at a strip club in Atlanta while entertaining clients. I was fresh out of school and was told my beer order didn’t qualify as a “big girl drink”, forced to drink liquor and shots by senior males and females and then reprimanded the next day. My next roles after that ALL include odd behavior from males in the workplace some who I even tried to defend. I fought, I clawed and when I began to really succeed, I started to get pushback from older women who had fought and clawed before me and who were not supporting the younger women doing the same. I am a successful executive in my field, I also own my own business and have daughters. My goal is to support, teach and lead, but I do believe if we need to draw a line it needs to be a clear line for all and that age and experience can cloud those lines. I hope that by opening the dialogue we open the ability for someone to say when they feel uncomfortable and be able to draw that line. That would be the true difference from me. We should all be able to speak and clearly define what makes each of us uncomfortable without repercussions
I'm 49 and have been in public accounting (mid-sized firm) my whole adult life. In my first ten years I frequently traveled with male partners (10-20 years my senior, so definitely this age range you are referring to), we worked long hours, stayed in hotels and always had dinners out. They NEVER made me feel uncomfortable and for that I am extremely grateful. After the me-too movement it made me think (again) how lucky I was and that I really should thank them for being good guys (but how weird is it that I think they are the minority, there-in lies the whole problem!). Upon further reflection, I realize that staying with them for the last 25+ years probably is enough of a thank you, lol.
I’m 59 and retired. For 23 years I worked in a Breast health center in a hospital and was around mostly women, including my boss, except for some male radiologist that I didn’t have to interact with. Before that, I worked in retail for 8-9 years and had male bosses. One of them did like me a lot and asked me out for drinks after work a couple of times, and I just politely said no. He had a wife in a different state who hadn’t moved to be with him yet. The managers got reassigned to different stores often, and their families wouldn’t be there. In my younger days I really didn’t consider that inappropriate, but it really is. Fortunately it didn’t go any further, and he didn’t bother me again, or cause any problems for me. Another boss asked me to go to his house and feed his dog and he would pay me. His wife was also in another state. That turned out ok, and I didn’t take any money for it. I find men very intimidating, and am glad I worked most of my years around women. The worst thing about that is how bitchy some can be.
Your perspective resonates with me a great deal. When I was first hearing about the report and discussing with my husband the details of what Cuomo had done, I knew intellectually it was all wrong...and yet, I felt that lingering "and yet." At first I couldn't put my finger on it, and then I thought, well, just about every single man I worked for should have been fired if held to the same standards. The sexual harassment I witnessed and was a victim of throughout my 20-year career in magazines would take me pages to catalog. I stood by when publishers demeaned and said explicit (often aggressive) sexual things to my editor bosses, who donned sunglasses in meetings and stood their ground without comment. There were times I did say something back in conference rooms when a highly offensive remark was made in my direction, but of course there were consequences (not being invited to the decision-making table anymore, for example). Like you, I have worked on a home-based business for almost a decade now, so I don't know how much has REALLY changed, although I am continually heartened by women's growing intolerance for this kind of behavior. Thanks for posting this and providing a forum for honest discussion about it. PROGRESS!
I'm 40, work in advertising and have never felt sexually harassed. I do think I've had to pretend like I'm ok with a joke or along for the ride more often than I would have liked in order to be accepted into the inner circle - and if you aren't in the inner circle in advertising - well then you are kind of just out.
That said, I can't really get behind the argument that he was unaware that the rules changed. He's an elected leader, and even if culturally or once upon a time how he behaved was ok, he needs to be aware and lean into the current state of affairs if he wants to keep the job. I also think he is a bully - one who knows the power they wield and I think that while maybe his advances were once just the way things were done he didn't stop not because he didn't know the rules changed but because he didn't care and felt above the rules and felt like he should get what he wants and act how he wants. I don't think this behavior is going away. Maybe touching a woman inappropriately as an action of this frame of thinking becomes rare, but I think a bully mentality who can use their power inappropriately is alive and well.
I'm 45, and have spent most of my adult working life in academia. I haven't felt like this was really a thing where I've worked. My first job out of college was at a small biotech company, and there was one awkward lunch invitation from an older guy at the company, but nothing really like what women describe it was like for them in other industries. Maybe I'm just really oblivious to things going on around me, or I chose a field (biology) that had/has less of an old boys power dynamic, or it was that the founders of the company I worked at were a husband-wife team and that made a difference in the culture there. I will say that I feel terrible for the women who were subject to Cuomo's advances, and for the women in other industries that have been mistreated like this. That is so much pressure and stress to take on oneself when just starting out, and it's so unfair. I hope that things are improving with the Me Too movement and all of these public reckonings.
I disagree 100% with your statement “ I think part of Cuomo’s problem is that he continued to make advances on much younger women, totally unaware that while he was busy accumulating power, the rules had changed.”. The “rules” for inappropriate behavior have not changed, but rather women are standing up and speaking out. There has never been (and never will be) an excuse of ignorance for what is acceptable sexual harassment- the answer is zero! Women tolerated it because it was the only path for them and now they’re speaking up which should make life at the office better for all women now and future generations. Speaking up is hard, but maybe you save someone else from the experience!