Picture this. You and a friend are with your daughters at a small town carnival. Except it’s Sag Harbor so every NYC parent you know is there. There is an hour long line for something called Riptide, which is a super tall ride with one long car that fits about 20 people across and spins around in a giant circle. You and your friend have no desire to go on this ride, but your kids really want to go on it, so you tell them that you are happy to wait in line for them while they go on other things.
This happened to us at a pumpkin fest years ago when my kids were little. BUT- the difference was we were waiting for a pony ride (only 4 ponies) and our kids waiting with us, patiently... counting the kids in front of the so they knew how long until it was their turn. When it was almost their turn, 6 kids ran up to the mom waiting in front of us and got on the ponies in front of my kids, and I was PISSED. But... instead of saying anything to her, I turned to my patient kids (with tears in their eyes) and said (loud enough for the woman to hear), "I know you have been waiting so patiently, and that was not nice of them. BUT- you will go next and for being so patient you can both have extra ice cream. You can also remember this experience as a learning experience on how NOT to be rude to other people and be the bigger person". Then I locked eyes with the mom and smiled.
Ilana did the same thing by holding her kid/friends place in line. Was that ok because it was even numbers? What if Harlow was there and 3 kids replaced? Just curious what makes it ok vs not ok.
Yes, she did the same thing and the number isn't an issue, it's communication. And, Ilana was waiting for two kids on a ride that seats 20. And someone cut in front of her. I get holding the line for your kids but in my case this woman was holding the line for far more than the ride even allows. The other difference is, Ilana was NICE and said something to explain, or at least tried to.
I don’t get it. She just waited for her kids so they didn’t have to. It’s unfortunate for your kids and them counting the ones Infront of them - I totally get that part -, but I don’t see the other mom in the wrong here.
The ride allows 4 at a time, so she held the line for far more kids than the ride allows, which makes all the other kids wait at least one or two times more. As I just said above, ilana at least tried to explain nicely, but just allowing 6 kids to come in and hold up the ride as much as the woman in front of me did, you think she'd care to say something especially when all the kids were complaining or crying about it (it wasn't only mine, obvs).
It’s so interesting to see what our kids view as being a Karen - I recently had a pretty bad experience with getting my car serviced. I called the service department for a status update and when they gave me a vague answer, I calmly said ‘I’m going to need more details than that’. My daughter’s jaw hit the floor and she started mouthing ‘don’t be a Karen’ from across the room. When I got off the phone, I explained that asking for details from someone who is supposed to be providing a service isn’t being a Karen - they had my car, which is my property, and I have a right to know when it will be returned to me. I think that helped clarify to her that there’s a difference between standing up for yourself and being a Karen which in her 9 year old mind is someone who complains or gets loud to get their way.
I totally agree with you on this. I think what’s happening now is that woman and even girls are less inclined to stand up for themselves or say anything that might help themselves as “a Karen”. It’s harmful. There’s a huge difference btwn being a rude and cruel person (“a Karen”- hate the term) versus someone speaking up b/c ppl cut in front of them or needing to know abt your car, or making sure you receive the correct order at a restaurant. It’s upsetting as a woman and as someone named Caren (same name different spelling).
As am almost 45 year old Karen, I've gotten to the point where I hate giving my name somewhere. I feel like I'm being judged without even doing anything. I don't want to be even close to being in a confrontation from either being called out as a "Karen" or the safety of it. World is a scary place!
I have never been one NOT to stand up for myself—- and learned to use ‘my teacher voice’ which was controlled and clear and polite as I got my 20’s. The big problem now is, I live in one of those ‘anyone can ( and does) carry a gun’ states… and I really don’t want to get shot. People are so unhinged about everything! But, I def would have used the teacher voice on that crew of teens. Just need to read the room carefully these days
I think standing up for oneself is situational based and directly related to who is with you. I know that having my kids with me changes my approach to each situation. For example, we were recently on vacation and had two instances where their presence changed my tactic. In the one scenario where I had to cancel something and get money back, I had a feeling it would be a problem so I made my kids stand away and off to the side. I didn’t need them making faces or comments or me feeding off their discomfort to stop me from achieving my goal. Which I did after some arguing. Whereas when we were approached on the beach and I couldn’t send my kids off, I had to ensure the situation didn’t escalate and put them in danger. That resulted in a quick rescue text to my husband.
I also think as a woman we change tactics dependent on whether the situation involves a man or a woman, one or many people, or different ages of people. Women, at least us GenX ladies, are always cautioned to not escalate and put ourselves in danger which also impacts how we assess and address a situation. I guarantee my husband doesn’t think about all the little things in the moment of a confrontation.
I don't think holding a place in line for others should be allowed...kids or not. I understand that you and your friend were not planning on riding the ride however, the people behind you didn't know that and all of a sudden 2 other people joined you which would mean their turn is held up longer. My thought is, if the kids want to ride a ride badly enough especially when they are older kids, they need to wait in line like everyone else. I usually have no problem saying something when I see additional people join a group last minute. The only time I don't is if it appears to be a parent with a young child joining the other parent with the other child...normally in that case, it is that the child had to use the restroom and one of the parents had to take him/her.
My son (8) was in a parking lot and a truck came racing down the aisle. He had his window down so I said to my son who was now afraid after almost being hit by a car, “I know, it’d be nice he if SLOWED DOWN.” The guy in the truck stopped & yelled “I’m going 2mph, bitch” loud enough for my son ANF twin daughters (4.5) to hear. I flipped him off and he sped off yelling fuck you.
Meanwhile, I get to now explain to my kids that word he called me is not one I ever want to hear them repeat because it is so hurtful. Once I got everyone buckled in, I realized 1. I was crying and 2. I needed to get out of there because it’s 2023 and what if he had a gun. So I now get to explain to my kids MORE things, like I’m not crying because I’m mad at them or my 8 year old for kindly offering to return the cart, but that men are still angry at women.
Oh my Gosh Ilana. This story gave me so so so much anxiety reading. And I can completely identify with your response. There was no winning. The only thing differently you could have tried was being the first to pull out your phone, but that also would have backfired and all of this in front of your kid and her friend. My deepest sympathies for what can only be described as an absolutely fucked up terrible shitty situation
I love this story so much! I used to be horrible at confrontations……and then I had kids. Now I’m a professional aggressive hisser. I’m very good at lowering my voice and hiss out unpleasantries when my kids are unfairly treated. I totally would have hissed the crap out of those teenagers.
I really wish you would have unleashed Karen so we could have experienced that outcome too:-)
No, I can't stand up for myself either! My husband is one to make a comment, but even if he's in the right, I feel so embarrassed that he stood up for the right thing and said something.🤦🏼♀️ Why am I this way?
So as I was reading this, it reminded me of something very similar happening to us last week at the carnival rides for the county fair. One teenager was standing in line and then just as we were almost to the front, six more of their friends joined them, clearly meaning to cut in line.
The difference came with the fact that I and the woman in front of me locked eyes and we both shook our heads. “I’m not going to let them cut!” she said and I agreed. So we just stayed very close together and refused to let them in.
I think it shows that you can’t allow others to break or try to enforce social norms by yourself. If you allow others to break them unilaterally, you end up in a pickle and/or show them that behavior is acceptable. If you try to enforce them by yourself, you end up screaming at people or getting ignored. But if you get multiple people to enforce them and work together, you can reinforce the message that “this isn’t acceptable behavior” and not cause a big fuss. The cooperation is key. Now, you have to make sure that you aren’t hanging up on someone either or only joining up with people like you. But multiple people standing up for showing respect can be really powerful. Or it can just keep some teens from cutting in front of my seven year old.
This story is all of us, right? I for sure used to think that being stern and honest was acceptable, but in the last few years I am way more hesitant to do so. It's so wild because omg, if we don't say something, don't they win? Why do they get to win? It's a horrible feeling to be told your side of the story doesn't matter.
I'm happy this ended how it did... as I was reading I could not see this ending well at all! I think maybe the hardest part of the whole thing is any of our kids being stuck in the middle and them watching us while we try and navigate it. Good job, Ilana. <3
That sucks. I know if that were me, I’d probably be too shy to say much and apparently that lady didn’t want to listen anyways. So I’d just grab my kid’s arm in a huff and say loudly that we need to go to the back of the line and I know my son probably would say something like, but you’ve been here for an hour and I would’ve said loudly something like, I know I’ve been waiting here for an hour but apparently I haven’t. And hopefully my son wouldn’t be too disappointed since he just rode a bunch of other rides while I kept his place. Maybe someone would step up for me or maybe that lady would realize that if my child thinks Ive been waiting this whole time than maybe realize I wasn’t lying and become embarrassed but whatever. I hate people who just ruin people’s day just by being mean. She was being the Karen and I hope someone was recording her!
I definitely have some social anxiety, and I used to get so embarrassed when my mom would call out service workers (or anyone). She was always gracious and polite, but it didn't matter to me. I'd cringe. I still get heart palpitations thinking of confrontation in that way. I will absolutely not send a dish back in a restaurant - but totally respect that you absolutely have the right to do so! I honestly wish I could be braver! The only time I find this courage is in situations like this when my kids are affected. I will be very passive aggressive with comments! lol I would have lost my mind in this situation! I think you handled it perfectly!
We were at a water park this summer and a group of 2-3 early teen boys cut in front of us saying “our parents are up ahead”. They went and stood behind another Mom who loudly said “oh not thing again! Get to the back!”. These kids kept doing this all day and tried again with us to which I said “not a chance, get to the back”. I was ready to go “full Karen” (hate that term) and tell staff if they did it again to us.
This happened to us at a pumpkin fest years ago when my kids were little. BUT- the difference was we were waiting for a pony ride (only 4 ponies) and our kids waiting with us, patiently... counting the kids in front of the so they knew how long until it was their turn. When it was almost their turn, 6 kids ran up to the mom waiting in front of us and got on the ponies in front of my kids, and I was PISSED. But... instead of saying anything to her, I turned to my patient kids (with tears in their eyes) and said (loud enough for the woman to hear), "I know you have been waiting so patiently, and that was not nice of them. BUT- you will go next and for being so patient you can both have extra ice cream. You can also remember this experience as a learning experience on how NOT to be rude to other people and be the bigger person". Then I locked eyes with the mom and smiled.
Ilana did the same thing by holding her kid/friends place in line. Was that ok because it was even numbers? What if Harlow was there and 3 kids replaced? Just curious what makes it ok vs not ok.
Yes, she did the same thing and the number isn't an issue, it's communication. And, Ilana was waiting for two kids on a ride that seats 20. And someone cut in front of her. I get holding the line for your kids but in my case this woman was holding the line for far more than the ride even allows. The other difference is, Ilana was NICE and said something to explain, or at least tried to.
Yes I think Ilana was fully in the right and still got hosed. I just wasn't sure if numbers mattered in this situation.
I don’t get it. She just waited for her kids so they didn’t have to. It’s unfortunate for your kids and them counting the ones Infront of them - I totally get that part -, but I don’t see the other mom in the wrong here.
The ride allows 4 at a time, so she held the line for far more kids than the ride allows, which makes all the other kids wait at least one or two times more. As I just said above, ilana at least tried to explain nicely, but just allowing 6 kids to come in and hold up the ride as much as the woman in front of me did, you think she'd care to say something especially when all the kids were complaining or crying about it (it wasn't only mine, obvs).
It’s so interesting to see what our kids view as being a Karen - I recently had a pretty bad experience with getting my car serviced. I called the service department for a status update and when they gave me a vague answer, I calmly said ‘I’m going to need more details than that’. My daughter’s jaw hit the floor and she started mouthing ‘don’t be a Karen’ from across the room. When I got off the phone, I explained that asking for details from someone who is supposed to be providing a service isn’t being a Karen - they had my car, which is my property, and I have a right to know when it will be returned to me. I think that helped clarify to her that there’s a difference between standing up for yourself and being a Karen which in her 9 year old mind is someone who complains or gets loud to get their way.
I totally agree with you on this. I think what’s happening now is that woman and even girls are less inclined to stand up for themselves or say anything that might help themselves as “a Karen”. It’s harmful. There’s a huge difference btwn being a rude and cruel person (“a Karen”- hate the term) versus someone speaking up b/c ppl cut in front of them or needing to know abt your car, or making sure you receive the correct order at a restaurant. It’s upsetting as a woman and as someone named Caren (same name different spelling).
As am almost 45 year old Karen, I've gotten to the point where I hate giving my name somewhere. I feel like I'm being judged without even doing anything. I don't want to be even close to being in a confrontation from either being called out as a "Karen" or the safety of it. World is a scary place!
I have never been one NOT to stand up for myself—- and learned to use ‘my teacher voice’ which was controlled and clear and polite as I got my 20’s. The big problem now is, I live in one of those ‘anyone can ( and does) carry a gun’ states… and I really don’t want to get shot. People are so unhinged about everything! But, I def would have used the teacher voice on that crew of teens. Just need to read the room carefully these days
I think standing up for oneself is situational based and directly related to who is with you. I know that having my kids with me changes my approach to each situation. For example, we were recently on vacation and had two instances where their presence changed my tactic. In the one scenario where I had to cancel something and get money back, I had a feeling it would be a problem so I made my kids stand away and off to the side. I didn’t need them making faces or comments or me feeding off their discomfort to stop me from achieving my goal. Which I did after some arguing. Whereas when we were approached on the beach and I couldn’t send my kids off, I had to ensure the situation didn’t escalate and put them in danger. That resulted in a quick rescue text to my husband.
I also think as a woman we change tactics dependent on whether the situation involves a man or a woman, one or many people, or different ages of people. Women, at least us GenX ladies, are always cautioned to not escalate and put ourselves in danger which also impacts how we assess and address a situation. I guarantee my husband doesn’t think about all the little things in the moment of a confrontation.
I don't think holding a place in line for others should be allowed...kids or not. I understand that you and your friend were not planning on riding the ride however, the people behind you didn't know that and all of a sudden 2 other people joined you which would mean their turn is held up longer. My thought is, if the kids want to ride a ride badly enough especially when they are older kids, they need to wait in line like everyone else. I usually have no problem saying something when I see additional people join a group last minute. The only time I don't is if it appears to be a parent with a young child joining the other parent with the other child...normally in that case, it is that the child had to use the restroom and one of the parents had to take him/her.
My son (8) was in a parking lot and a truck came racing down the aisle. He had his window down so I said to my son who was now afraid after almost being hit by a car, “I know, it’d be nice he if SLOWED DOWN.” The guy in the truck stopped & yelled “I’m going 2mph, bitch” loud enough for my son ANF twin daughters (4.5) to hear. I flipped him off and he sped off yelling fuck you.
Meanwhile, I get to now explain to my kids that word he called me is not one I ever want to hear them repeat because it is so hurtful. Once I got everyone buckled in, I realized 1. I was crying and 2. I needed to get out of there because it’s 2023 and what if he had a gun. So I now get to explain to my kids MORE things, like I’m not crying because I’m mad at them or my 8 year old for kindly offering to return the cart, but that men are still angry at women.
It’s frustrating & terrifying.
Oh my Gosh Ilana. This story gave me so so so much anxiety reading. And I can completely identify with your response. There was no winning. The only thing differently you could have tried was being the first to pull out your phone, but that also would have backfired and all of this in front of your kid and her friend. My deepest sympathies for what can only be described as an absolutely fucked up terrible shitty situation
I love this story so much! I used to be horrible at confrontations……and then I had kids. Now I’m a professional aggressive hisser. I’m very good at lowering my voice and hiss out unpleasantries when my kids are unfairly treated. I totally would have hissed the crap out of those teenagers.
I really wish you would have unleashed Karen so we could have experienced that outcome too:-)
No, I can't stand up for myself either! My husband is one to make a comment, but even if he's in the right, I feel so embarrassed that he stood up for the right thing and said something.🤦🏼♀️ Why am I this way?
So as I was reading this, it reminded me of something very similar happening to us last week at the carnival rides for the county fair. One teenager was standing in line and then just as we were almost to the front, six more of their friends joined them, clearly meaning to cut in line.
The difference came with the fact that I and the woman in front of me locked eyes and we both shook our heads. “I’m not going to let them cut!” she said and I agreed. So we just stayed very close together and refused to let them in.
I think it shows that you can’t allow others to break or try to enforce social norms by yourself. If you allow others to break them unilaterally, you end up in a pickle and/or show them that behavior is acceptable. If you try to enforce them by yourself, you end up screaming at people or getting ignored. But if you get multiple people to enforce them and work together, you can reinforce the message that “this isn’t acceptable behavior” and not cause a big fuss. The cooperation is key. Now, you have to make sure that you aren’t hanging up on someone either or only joining up with people like you. But multiple people standing up for showing respect can be really powerful. Or it can just keep some teens from cutting in front of my seven year old.
This story is all of us, right? I for sure used to think that being stern and honest was acceptable, but in the last few years I am way more hesitant to do so. It's so wild because omg, if we don't say something, don't they win? Why do they get to win? It's a horrible feeling to be told your side of the story doesn't matter.
I'm happy this ended how it did... as I was reading I could not see this ending well at all! I think maybe the hardest part of the whole thing is any of our kids being stuck in the middle and them watching us while we try and navigate it. Good job, Ilana. <3
That sucks. I know if that were me, I’d probably be too shy to say much and apparently that lady didn’t want to listen anyways. So I’d just grab my kid’s arm in a huff and say loudly that we need to go to the back of the line and I know my son probably would say something like, but you’ve been here for an hour and I would’ve said loudly something like, I know I’ve been waiting here for an hour but apparently I haven’t. And hopefully my son wouldn’t be too disappointed since he just rode a bunch of other rides while I kept his place. Maybe someone would step up for me or maybe that lady would realize that if my child thinks Ive been waiting this whole time than maybe realize I wasn’t lying and become embarrassed but whatever. I hate people who just ruin people’s day just by being mean. She was being the Karen and I hope someone was recording her!
I definitely have some social anxiety, and I used to get so embarrassed when my mom would call out service workers (or anyone). She was always gracious and polite, but it didn't matter to me. I'd cringe. I still get heart palpitations thinking of confrontation in that way. I will absolutely not send a dish back in a restaurant - but totally respect that you absolutely have the right to do so! I honestly wish I could be braver! The only time I find this courage is in situations like this when my kids are affected. I will be very passive aggressive with comments! lol I would have lost my mind in this situation! I think you handled it perfectly!
What is up with teenagers these days?!
We were at a water park this summer and a group of 2-3 early teen boys cut in front of us saying “our parents are up ahead”. They went and stood behind another Mom who loudly said “oh not thing again! Get to the back!”. These kids kept doing this all day and tried again with us to which I said “not a chance, get to the back”. I was ready to go “full Karen” (hate that term) and tell staff if they did it again to us.